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metolius power cam vs mastercam

Copyright 2017 CascadeClimbers.com Math wise the Metolius master cam puts more force outward on the rock and should result in more holding power. I've never had one snap or heard of it being any widespread problem since they fixed the degreasing issue of the first few runs. So it does have some advantages. The BD C4s took the cam market by storm and there are die hard fans all over the world, including myself, but recently I've been really appreciating the extra holding power of the Metolius cams.

To me, mastercams are way more flexible - thus way more secure. I was still using both of them a couple years ago, they hadn't even broken a trigger wire. For those of you that for some reason get emotional about this (check your priorities yo!) 1. All rights reserved.

For a small finger sized cam, I love the "u" shaped 4 cam metolius units. interesting articles, comprehensive gear reviews, breathtaking photographs and a vast and useful logbook system. Where we found some flaw in the design on these cams is that the middle cam lobes are too close together creating somewhat of an unstable placement prone to walking with the movement of the rope. The u-stems are flexible enough for horizontal placements, while also providing a high clip-in point for aid climbing and the cam head is compact enough to fit into some awkward and tight placements. American Alpine Institute - Climbing Blog, Rock Climb Red Rocks - Las Vegas, Nevada, Climbing Events December and January 2012, Win a Free Copy of Andy Kirkpatrick's Cold Wars, National Geographic: Adventurer of the Year Award. Got feedback? If I HATE the spacing between BLUE and Yellow. I understood that the Mastercam camming angle was indeed smaller than that of the Camalots but the same as that of WC Friends and DMM Dragons. The idea is that the wire does not kink (like metal wire) and there is no feedback between cam lobes, creating a safer unit. It's easy! I'm with RyanB. Whilst they are a very different build to the C4s and therefore a little hard to compare I am equally happy with either one on my rack. However, the thing that really struck me as a bad idea when I first looked at the Master Cams was the Kevlar cord, which attaches the cam lobes to the trigger bar. "It's hard to pick one specific type of climbing that I prefer over the others but I think my heart still lies with big mixed alpine routes that potentially involve a couple of nights bivying. Building a rack of cams can be confusing and expensive A camming device is often referred to as a "camming unit" the world's most carefully tested and objective gear reviews. You help support OutdoorGearLab's product testing and reviews by purchasing from our retail partners. Zeros are widely available and a similar price to Master Cams, the natural comparison surely? Totem posted on this at some point on ST. Basically, the Totem rating is with less cam closure vs the Fixe. In any "scene" it is hard to tease out actual opinion vs. group mentality, posturing, and wanna-being. 4. The cams feature a u-stum design that allows for ease of handling while simultaneously providing a high clip-in point for clean aid climbing. Not massively convinced that this would do the job I took them out again for a good alpine beating and surprisingly enough they are still completely intact after all this time. Climbing Alaska. The reason I ask is because I always want to have full faith in my gear, and the mastercam hate kinda shocked me.

WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS. I thought it unusual that you did not compare these with either Wild Country Zeros or Aliens. McKinley ClimbsAlaska Range ExpeditionsSt. If you must have something light these are going to be your best value option. I have the size zero purple master cam and like it a lot. Thanks for visiting Cascadeclimbers.com. Yep, we are still going! Just put a new coat of paint on the site. Links | Terms | Privacy | FAQ | Contact Beta | Forum | Trip Reports | And ditto on the comment about waiting on the regular totem (the non-alien). But oh wait, master cams suck and this guy was a total moron because nobody that climbs hard trad uses master cams.

Jon You say they have resolved the issue of the kevlar fraying, in doing this have they stopped the lobe tilt as shown in your picture or is this still an issue? The cam lobes are nice and wide making them a decent option for softer rock types. An issue that can be circumvented by slinging your placements long, but an issue nonetheless. Home | Climbing Areas | Free From Yosemite to the desert Southwest, to the Northeast and Southeast, it seems like everyone is out craggin' in Rocktober. However I wanted a cam that works long term and I didn't want to have to worry about resetting the cam lobes every time I wanted to place it. Heck yes. I don't find it to be more a problem than any other small cam. The machining on the lobes looks down right janky compared to c4. No sponsored content. I had a #5 placed 3 or 4 times and the cam lobes started rubbing against each other. The bigger sizes are too flaccid so I'd say blue-orange is my master cam rack. Even though I'm neither from Oregon nor a US citizen Powercams are cool but they walk and get stuck. I think until you actually go out an use the Totems crack climbing for a weekend, anyone is resistant to them and how they look, which is kind of funky at first glance. Conditions in the mountains are constantly changing, and no guidebook or computer web blog can take the place of solid training and experience. I did an initial review here - read down a few posts, I saw I posted on the Strength ratings as well. Anyway, hope I can get a better less emotionally charged answer. The big downside was the trigger wires were a bitch to replace, the cam head got deformed very quickly, they were useless in mixed climbing, and the whole part about them breaking. Myself repeating Highlander with a set of Mastercams, VII 7 Ben O'connor Croft. Next, up are the C3's. This is obviously a minor issue, but it is annoying. When seated correctly the lobes really held in place. (Ed's note: Aliens are now difficult to find because the company Colorado Custom Hardware Inc. is up for sale). I also prefer aliens (that work) except in snowy/icy conditions. I am still getting used to the whole Chamonix 'get back in time for the last lift' style - I still include bivying as a part of any decent mountaineering experience. 3.) Placing them with gloves was no problem either as they have a thumb loop much the same as you see on the BD C4s. But, I don't aid climb at all, maybe that bashes them up worse. Rock Climbing Red Rocks | MY biggest issue with Master Cams and all Metolius cams are their sizing choices. American Alpine Institutewww.alpineinstitute.com800-424-2249360-671-15051515 12th StBellingham, WA 98225, The Equipment Shopat theAmerican Alpine Institute360-671-1570, Winter Courses and ExpeditionsNow Taking Reservations, Rock Climb Red Rocks - Las Vegas, NevadaRock Climb Joshua Tree - CaliforniaEcuador Volcanoes Skills ExpeditionClimb AconcaguaBackcountry Skiing - WashingtonBackcountry Skiing - ColoradoBackcountry Skiing - SierraWinter Mountaineering - SierraIce Climb Ouray - ColoradoIce Climb Lee Vining - SierraAvalanche Education - Washington, Summer Courses ExpeditionsNow Taking Reservations, Denali / Mt. Is one company publishing actual range while the other is publishing usable range? 2.) We're proud to say that most of our products are still made by our small team in Skipton, North As climbers we strive to make UKClimbing the kind of website we would love to visit, with the most up-to-date news, diverse Waaay less flexible, and I've had them blow placements. I've actually emailed the guys in Bend about making half sizes. Since they have fixed the fraying issue the lobe tilt is not an issue any more as well. Totems wear as well as any of the other cams. And bottom line, nothing beats a well set wired nut. 2) sizes from #4 (red) and larger "stick" some when you first pull the trigger. I'm glad I waited on the link cam and the supercam. In a nutshell, Metolius cams are built so that they have a smaller camming angle than their competitors, meaning that they have a higher holding power but sacrifice camming range.

At 50 a cam you do kind of expect this.

When you click on links to buy products we may earn money to support. Rockfax Known for their range ofdistinctive chalk bags and buckets, they have also have a great line of chalk products, brushes and other accessories. Climb at your own risk. Indeed, when I first started to build my rack, the "made in Oregon" helped me to decide. The fraying wires were a worry at the start but it is good to see that this has been cleared up now and am happy to give these cams a big thumbs up. But I also have been extremely happy with my mastercams as a substitute. Not the least or most expensive cam on the market. do cracks fundamentally change at a certain grade? When I contacted Metolius I was told that it was not an issue that they had seen before - it often happens that when you review gear you get prototype kit meaning that there are often modifications before it is released on the market. The new engineering that allows you to load a Totem cam on just one side(2 lobes) and hang off it(no guarantee it will hold a lead fall set like that but good for aid), should tell you something about their holding power in other then perfect placements and also their resistance to walking when both sides of the cam are engaged. 2. My partner took a 7 foot fall on it on Lazybum in the valley, held fine. As I did this, I realized that I have three generations of one particular cam - the trusty #1 "Blue" Metolius. October seems to be excellent for rock climbing in most places in the country. As another of the UKC gear reviewers, I've had this problem as well; I'm going to be writing the DMM Dragon review, and I can compare them to the 4CUs that I've had for 4 years, and the Friends, flexi friends and quadcams I've had for 15 or more years - but I've never owned Camalots and I bet lots of people will want to know how they compare to them! A few thoughts. And a rough survey of 'well-assembled' aliens showed many had randomly mis-drilled axle holes which rendered their holding power an inconsistent crap shoot. I however avoid woven sheaths Cams in general as much as possible for others reasons From Colin Haley Colin Haley equipment for alpinism, "Avoid cams with woven-sheathed cables (Aliens) for alpine climbing, as they can freeze up and become useless, dead weight.". I'll concede that I know there are placements that C3s excell because they are narrower, but the vast majority of my placements on smaller sizes don't require a super narrow head. I just want to be using the safest gear. I don't want to speak for Jon, but at a guess it might be that he doesn't own either of them. The added range and narrower head of the alien let you wiggle it into a good placement and the flexy stem and long sling lets you clip it and go. The CCH/Fixe rating being higher is due to a different testing regime. Rock Climbing Southwest | However, they have not used the Totem cams YET! One of the main selling points of micro cams is how narrow the manufacturer can make the head width. This means that each unit will have less possibility of fitting, increasing the chance that you'll be turning back to your gear sling or harness for a different piece. I am a manufacturing engineer, but my asessments are based on climbing regularly and placing gear and not dyanmic testing or working in the lab with them. Below a Green Alien the Master Cams and other designs are better. Posts in all Forums, Free I agree, aliens had better range and got stuck less. The triggers are small and slippery. Material on GearLab is copyrighted. cams, I think about other cam designs (Metolius Fat Cams, TCUs, & offset TCUs, Black Diamond C3's, Aliens, etc. Metolius Ultralight Powercams are the lightest cams on the market. True, but I personally like that, and the fact that they are way more flexible than C3s. another point? I actually like the grey and purple master cams better then the equivalent black and blue aliens. The point of micro cams is that they can fit into tiny placements: with miniscule cracks you don't have much margin for space so the narrower the head the better. Im not sure if the problems were related or not. Though this site features descriptions of roads, trails, climbing routes, and other natural features, you cannot assume that because something is described here that it has not changed since last observed or that it will be safe for you or your party. Looks like everything here is just personal opinions. Access to a year's subscription to Rockfax Digital. -disingenuous marketing about "holding power", - spring tension that relies on the cam stops, (this is in comparison to correctly-assembled aliens, not the ticking timebomb models that failed under bodyweight). These are the best cams for you if you are obsessed with weight, but overall, we prefer the flexibility of a single stem cam like the, GearLab is reader-supported. I alway concidered a C3 a "specialty piece". I'm re-posting my question in a new thread since the folks in the know are probably (and rightfully) not reading the thread I posted it in originally. World-wide ascents, expeditions, and mountaineering instruction. I was a bit skeptical as normally I'm a big fan of C3s on granite and basalt, however I had a green C3 fail on me last week in a body weight situation while at IC. Those skinny wires running over the lobes seem like they'd wear out pretty fast. The smaller units are maybe what interests people the most. 3. Unfortunately there is no extendable sling, which I always think should become a standard when it comes to cams. I've used them when climbing with friends a couple of times and been annoyed because they just won't go in as many places as my aliens do. 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3 cam units (TCUs/C3s) don't do very well on soft sandstone. This was always a feature that I loved about the original metolius, but with the quads, the upwards pull has the potential to allow for the cam to walk. No cherry-picked units sent by manufacturers. Ultralight Powercams are Metolius' response to climbers' constant and ubiquitous call for lighter climbing gear. All trademarks property of their respective owners I am also still getting used to crack climbing - it hurts. a lot.". After good use in both summer and winter conditions in the Alps I've really enjoyed having these on my rack. You will usually need to sling them due to the relatively rigid stems.

Jon, thank you for your review. If you try to shove them in without pulling the trigger, they flex and wont go in. Instead, Metolius Cams always seem to have gaps. It's nice to have a mix of different brands of cams, I think all the big name cams are fine. Optimator" yesterday using master cams in the tips section. The light and compact design makes them ideal for back country adventures, or any application where traveling light is key. It's a workhorse, to be sure. I wrote this review quite a while ago so I cant remember the figures I had gotten from all the companies off the top of my head but I will get back to you on all their camming angles jon, Please support the following outdoor retailers who support. It's unfortunate, but obviously we can only do comparisons to stuff we do own and have used plenty. How many days have you climbed on your totems? Let us know! Points: 50, Latest Yeah, on the #0 and #1, but I'm usually reaching for a ball nut as often as a cam for those placements. if a sketchy run-out 5.6 with funky thin pro is wicked hard for someone, wouldn't it be the same situation? Another area where we found the Powercams lacking was in that they had one of the lowest ranges of all the cams that we tested. It's a bit too much. I've been down at Indian Creek for the past few weeks climbing on all types of gear. To me, they are alien copies with no advantages and several downsides. The green alien is far far better then any other cam in that size. Topos | Guidebooks | Route Comparing Totem Basics vs Fixe Aliens on the published specs: the Fixe look like they have a bigger expansion range. there is no reason to get anything bigger. Well, as usual it's one of those innovations that may or may not catch on. I'm going to wait until people have been climbing on the totems for a couple of years before I spring for them. As a result, an Still the same old community of climbers, skiers, and people who love to get outdoors. Elias Range ExpeditionsBolivia ExpeditionsPeru ExpeditionsChina ExpeditionsBugaboo Provincial Park ExpeditionsPacific Northwest Climbing ProgramsSierra Nevada Climbing Programs. At first I really missed my aliens, but after the withdrawl, I haven't looked back. After a few months use some of the cords started to fray and then very quickly the sheath would break apart revealing the inner core. I read that Totem tweaked the range to make the grey obsolete, but when I add up the numbers, it still looks like Fixe wins. The downside versus the old metolius tcus is that the quad cams will not pivot in an upward pull. We only make money if you purchase a product through our links, and we never accept free products from manufacturers. The "u" stem four cam metolius units seem very stable and able to grab uneven shaped cracks. They are THE state of the art gear protection available right now, and I can't emphasize enough how well they work in what are questionable or sketchy placements with BD or Metolius cams, whereas Totem cams lock in and you can just feel when they aren't walking or coming out, just awesome. This doesn't allow for a grat degree of individual lobe movement to account for slight variances in the rock, and contributes to the cams walking. You couldn't do better then with a rack of Totem cams. Our experts test thousands of products each year using thoughtful test plans that bring out key performance differences between competing products. They have stood the test of time. Looked like the Fixe has a much higher breaking strength. Three cams fell foul to this and it's a shame as I really liked them. single annual In fact, due to the rather stronger springs and more aggressive camming angle they actually feel better than the C3s, as when I put a micro in place I want to make sure that it is going to walk as little as possible as there is very little margin for error on these ones. And, to assure complete independence, we buy all the products we test ourselves. layton, November 16, 2011 in The Gear Critic. Granted I don't lead 5.12 and I haven't broken one (which would shake my faith in them, as blowing a couple placements on a C3), but I feel like I've climbed enough, and had to make some pretty creative placements from "marginal stances". AAI assumes no responsibility or liability for your use of the information presented in this blog. Use them side by side with the BD's and Metolius cams, thats what it takes. In fact, they even appear to wear better because of the dual axle they seem to clean easily, so you don't have to yank them around as much to get them out or in a tight placement. I don't have all the generations of the Metolius cams, but here are the three I do have: Yep, you can call me a nerd for geekin out on cams, but hey, I use Weekend Warrior - Videos to get you STOKED!!! Weight wise the C4s are on the heavier side but this is due to their dual axle design and therefore they have a larger camming range. The single stem wire on mastercams looks like it might be more susceptible to bending, but I've also bent a bunch of my camalots where the wire meets the head, so that's also really just me being leery of a new design. Mastercams in my opinion are unwieldy and hard to place in a panic. Photos | Articles We found that the Powercams tended to walk a bit more than many other cams that we tested. But what caught my attention, placing all three generations side by side, is the evolution of cam design. Messages 1 - 18 of total 18 in this topic, Yosemite Valley, California USA, Apr 30, 2019, Yosemite Valley, California USA, Apr 18, 2019, Yosemite Valley, California USA, Apr 17, 2019, Yosemite Valley, California USA, Mar 31, 2019, The Kohala Ditch Trail: 36ish hrs on foot to and from the headwaters. No ads. incredible community has formed around the site - weve provided the framework but its you who make the website what it is today. i should have mentioned this is just an inquiry for the orange size on down. and :-), Oh back to the name drop thing.. How many falls have you taken on them? one more thing I didn't post - if you're complaining about the trigger wires, make sure you didn't get the older ones - they've long been updated and seem to hold up just fine. A flexible, single stem unit with an ultra-narrow head width for hard aid or free climbing, 13 mm Monster Sling webbing (36% Dyneema/64% nylon), Range Finder tells you at a glance if you've chosen the right size cam for the placement, Optimized cam angle for more outward force, CNC machined for much greater precision than stamped or extruded cams, Hand built, inspected and individually tested to its rated strength. Green-Red Alien are their sweet spot. -Three generations of #1 Metolius Cams. This can be a one-off My only issue with them is that the lack of range. We found Powercams to be admirable performers as far as durability goes, and the u-stem is flexible enough for horizontal placements. In practice, the Master Cams worked really well and felt even more secure than the Power Cams that I had tested earlier (OK, pretty unfair to compare as there is one less lobe on the Power Cam). you appreciate the content we offer then you can help us by becoming an official UKC Supporter. Reproduction without permission is prohibited. They promptly sent out a new set, which have a protection around the weak part of the Kevlar cord (which happens to be where it threads through the trigger bar). wonder if there is any difference between the Totem and the Fixe? Our Editors independently research, test, and rate the best products. It's hard to put it into words, but quite simply Metolius cams just feel bomber when they go in, which is a good thing. 2021 marks the 10th birthday of 8BPLUS. Climbing is dangerous. It seemed a very weak point and one that wasn't going to last very long on the rough Chamonix granite and unfortunately it proved so. Climbing, skiing and mountaineering are dangerous sports. As I look at these generations of It all comes down to which fits more places. In terms of the wire, the cord is a nylon and kevlar mix which is lighter, (theoretically) stronger and more flexible than wire. No texture. Hopefully the Spaniards do a better job of it. If you are going to basically copy an existing and well-loved product in any industry, you better make something as good, if not much better. Let us know! But wait, this route isn't hard so never mind My rack: C3s from purple to green (for basalt and granite). Coel Hellier: I have email Metolius for clarification. Excellence in guiding since 1975. them a lot, and I think it's pretty cool.

In Smith tuff or pods of Basalt nothing is better. what does the grade matter? It's the size you WANT between Blue and Yellow. As mentioned before, we weren't actively cognizant of using the rangefinder, but we think that it does register in our brains when placing the piece. Master cams aren't perfect but in my mind they are a solid small cam. Rock Climbing Sierra Having scoured the internet for similar horror stories it seems that I got a bad batch and that the versions released on the market live up to the high standard of manufacturing that Metolius are known for. The Totem Basics are a near spot on version of the CCH Alien with some tweaks and improvements that make it better overall. Enviromental sustainability has been one of the main driving forces behind EDELRID products for many years and the #climbGREEN range continues that trend. In part this is due to the rather strong springs and in part due to the camming angle. Given that you'd expect them to have MORE sizes for more overlap and better "Coverage". please don't respond, I don't care what you have to say.".

Hope you had a great 2021, and wish you the best for 2022 and beyond. Thanks again for stopping by. I am far from immune to this, but I agree with Nate. Thanks Sam. Since they use the smaller 13.25 cam angle they have a smaller range. Mastercams are less flexible than Aliens, but with a sling, who cares. Rock Climbing Zion | The Official Trip Report, Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 11, 2016 - 10:44am PT, Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2016 - 11:29am PT, Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2016 - 11:19am PT. It's impossible to explain properly so just look at the image below. I haven't taken a fall on one yet but they have performed perfectly in aiding and winter situations, with none of the ice/snow clogging up of the lobes that you get on cheaper cams which renders them totally useless in mixed situations. As already mentioned they are a direct competitor to the Alien and C3s that make up the current micro cam market.

Please help UKClimbing continue to provide varied and free content by becoming a UKC Supporter, or UKC Supporter Plus which http://www.rei.com/product/737372/metolius-ultralight-range-finder-power-cams. Rock Climbing Tuolumne | Rock Climbing Tahoe | Metolius has created a very lightweight camming unit that will serve you well on lightweight backcountry adventures and big walls alike.

Ol' Blue has fit into more little tips cracks than I can remember, and held more falls than I'd like to admit. The heads are narrower on the master cams in these sizes and I feel I can wiggle them into narrow seems and still see in to inspect the heads. At least a fall or two a day? Not sure where all this hate is coming from. Metolius have managed to narrow the head width by making their cam lobes thinner, which places them in between the Alien and the C3s more or less. Until then, go out and use those cams while the weather lasts! payment or a more substantial payment paid monthly or yearly which includes full access to Rockfax Digital and discounts on I prefer the sculpted trigger to the triggers on my Aliens. I don't have much experience with Aliens but compared to the C3s they perform similarly well with no complaints at all. And at least the cam lobes don't turn to mush after a season or two. When you undertake an outdoor, backcountry, or an alpine adventure without a guide, you assume total responsibility for your decisions and wellbeing. I basically never touched my Power Cams, TCUs, or two sets of Alien Hybrids again after Master Cams came out. -Powercams on the right, new Mastercam on left.

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metolius power cam vs mastercam