part of such discharge pipe shal

No part of such discharge pipe shall be trapped or subject to freezing. I much appreciate the discussion and polite well-intended argument. Discharge to the floor, to the pan serving the water heater or storage tank, to a waste receptor or to the outdoors. heater to burst or explode.). If for example someone installed a flexible line to replace a straight downtube running down the side of a water heater from the TP valve, I'd be worried that some fool would come along and bend the tubing "up" - as nothing prevents them from doing so.

You said: "the cost to cure is trivial" Yes, but I'm thinking it might/should be a little more--based on the opinion of a couple of plumbers I've spoken with--and the tank's age. I am not aware of any temperature/pressure valve that itself is made of plastic. 5 (b) The discharge pipe and fittings shall have a diameter not less than the diameter of the relief valve outlet. The discharge drain extension is typically taken to just a few inches above the floor or in some jurisdictions it may be directed outdoors - a solution that I think is risky because IF the valve should be leaking, dripping, etc., one wants to notice that and fix it to keep the system safe.The inspector's report makes a valid point: we should never route the discharge tube "up" from the actual outlet opening of the TP valve. & How? Smith in the article below). Practically, you have to have enough space that when replacement of the TPR valve is needed there is working space to unscrew and remove the old one and get the new one in place - that might be just an inch or two past the test lever; and separately, you don't want any dripping or discharge to wet the drywall lest you invite a mold contamination issue. Where the valves cannot be tested in service, the user shall maintain and make available to the inspector records showing the test dates and set pressure for such valves. (Normally supplied in UN-LIME shipping cartons), 4800 Rev. without backing up to the valve.

I'm still nervous about the long term safety of this design.

The outlet of the discharge pipe shall terminate within 6 inches over the floor or receptor, but not less than a distance equal to twice the diameter of the outlet pipe. A sump pit and pump exist in the area. (happened already). Hi I would appreciate if you could advise where I should direct the relief valve pipe to.The 45 litre electric hot water unit is installed under the kitchen bench inside the cupboard in a unit. The Temperature & Pressure Relief Valve or TPR Valve on any heated appliance that contains water, such as a heating boiler, hot water tank, water heater, water cylinder, must have a drain line or discharge tube properly installed, routed, and made of proper materials. The temperature steam rating of a combination temperature and pressure relief valve or valves shall equal or exceed the energy input rating in BTU per hour of the water heater. Both of these installations are improper and unsafe. were told that the white plastic was not to code and should be replaced with copper. Each such combination temperature and pressure-relief valve shall be provided with a drain in accordance with Section 608.5. There is a drop of water at the discharge tube mouth that may be telling us that this valve leaks - which risks valve clogging by mineral scale and again risking that it cannot work safely if called-on to do so. Less dramatic but scary, at a different inspection I found that a string tied through a small hole in the end of the TPR valve's test lever. 2. Some of the discharge tube is wrapped in foil and isn't visible so there may be other hazards. The discharge piping serving a temperature relief valve, pressure relief valve, or combination of both shall have no valves, obstructions, or means of isolation and be provided with the following: Equal to the size of the valve outlet and shall discharge full size to the flood level of the area receiving the discharge and pointing down. Terminate not more than 6 inches (152 mm) above and not less than two times the discharge pipe diameter above the floor or flood level rim of the waste receptor. In normal water heater operation there should be no discharge from its TPR valve, so if later a slow drip at the valve leads to a clogged pigtail drain that condition may be indistinguishable from a perfectly functional installation. Each pressure relief valve shall be an approved automatic type with drain, and each such relief valve shall be set at a pressure of not more than 150 psi (1034 kPa). if it blocks view of or draining of a relief valve. Those would be most helpful. During a routine maintenance, 2022/01/11. Practically - adding another messy detail, if your water heater sits in a drip or spill tray then the bottom of the discharge pipe will have to jog out and over and down to get past the outer edge of the drip tray, so the drip tray itself is going to space the heater and most of the discharge pipe a bit more-distant from the wall. The plastic Reliance -brand T&P discharge pipe I show here is sold by plumbing suppliers locally and on-line for about $12.

This electric heat pump water heater is installed in a crawlspace (6" ceiling).

not to create a health or safety hazard. At the time, we immediately requested the heating company to replace the plastic and paid a substantial amount of money to do this. A visible location, or if to a not-visible location, search Inspectapedia for TUNDISH and use one of those at the heater. Recently we replaced our 14 year old Ultra 310 Boiler with a new Evergreen 399 Boiler. The purpose of this drain line is to discharge potentially hot scalding water to a safe location so that a bystander is not scalded. Is there any requirement that the fitting and pipe extension is required to be made from copper? I appreciate the significant convenience of being able to route a TPR valve discharge line up and thence horizontally and then "down" to a more-convenient discharge location, and now that we've got your added detail I understand the theory of a copper pigtail drain on the down-end of a Tee into which the water heater or boiler TPR valve is discharging. Just how fast that unsafe condition occurs depends on variables including. 11. Water trapped in the discharge line may cause the T & P I can't say that I understand it nor what that pigtail is doing as shown in the illustration (though I make some guesses) - what is it? Zurn Engineered Water Solutions, retrieved 12/23/12, original source: http://www.zurn.com/Pages/ProductsList.aspx?NodeKey=398872, [1] "Residential Electric Water Heater Installation Instructions and Use & Care Guide", American Water Heater Co., October 2001, American Water Heater Co., Johnson City, TN, [manufacturer of residential & commercial water heaters, also manufacturer of Polaris/Commercial water heaters], Tel: 800-999-9515, web search 1/12/2012, original source: americanwaterheater.com/support/manuals/res-elect.pdf [copy on file] [Technical review requested 1/25/2011], [2] ANSI Z21.22 - 1986, provides requirements for pressure/temperature relief valves Above is an illustration of an [American Standard] electric water heater installed with a drain pan - notice the relief valve discharge pipe routing. But the discharge tube on many new installations is plastic; it's a pipe that rarely sees service and whose job is to divert hot water to the floor rather than onto a bystander. when installed in accordance with sub.

You might detect a clogged pigtail drain on an upwards-piped relief valve drain during an annual test of the TPR valve: the valve is opened to discharge and then closed; afterwards you should see a small volume of water exiting from the pigtail drain as the remaining water in the up-piped larger diameter TPR discharge tube drains out through the pigtail. A "P" Trap could be installed about 10" under the T&P. The overflow line is higher than the Temperature and Pressure Relief (T & P) valve. temperature and pressure relief valve or water treatment device 4930 Motorized Deliming Pump Kit, [8] Rheem Electric Water Heater "Owners Guide and Installation Instructions", (Australian models) rheem.com.au/images/pdf/owners_dom-elec_121996C_0707.pdf, [10] 52 Questions and their Answers [about] Hot Water [Heaters, Explosions & Water Heater Safety], Watts Regulator Company (1973). You don't know what you don't know. There are other things I might mention. if the installation for my boiler said use 50psi and the tech put in 30psi relief valve. /UNLIME Specific De liming Instructions for use with Up-N-Down Transfer A temperature sensor or something else? Watch out: a TPR valve not properly located risks failing to respond adequately to over-temperature or over-pressure in the water heater, risking a BLEVE explosion.

Really? Discharge piping connected to the device must be supported so as not to impart any loadings on the body of the device. Either the end of the drain needs to be visible or if your local codes permit, you can install a Tundish - search InspectApedia for TUNDISH to read about use of that device.

That would mostly eliminate the need to dry the pipe out, or at least reduce the consequence. That passage of water leaves scale that ultimately blocks the valve. (many handyman people could also do this job). - unsafe, improper TPR valve installation: wrong location, improper drain piping. 6. - Kevin 7/26/2011. On 2020-11-23 Your local building code inspector might indeed approve routing the relief valve discharge to a hidden and harmless location provided a Tundish is installed so that leaks can be detected. 5 (f) The discharge pipe for a water heater shall terminate within the same room or enclosure within which the water heater or hot water storage tank is located. (Hellemans 2009). TPR valves drip far more often than they flow at volume. The discharge pipe may not be threaded. do you think that's the reason it keeps leaking. Only a complete fool would do what we found on this boiler. Eleni Incidentally, that water heater insulation is not required and in some installations can be itself unsafe, e.g. 2. OTHER PEOPLE's MONEY, On 2021-01-18 by (mod) No one called out the use of that piping material itself as a hazard, but there can be hazards nonetheless depending on how that tube is routed - such as to a hidden location without a Tundish or routed "up" from the TP valve itself. 11. The outlet end of such tubing shall be fastened in place. Discharge in such a manner that does not cause personal injury or structural damage. In a plastic container I'm getting about 4oz of water from the TP valve discharge tube. The TPR valve needs to be installed in a tapping on the heater itself, near the top or on the top, as provided by the manufacturer; if you give the brand and model of water heater we may be able to find the installation manual that will show those exact details. In fact you might want to check out the opinion at Discharge line must be same size as valve outlet, be pitched down for free draining, and have no shut-off valve or obstructions throughout its entire length. concerning the heating element, it was suggested that it might be impossible to get a replacement part for that as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmJoyuUJj2Q, [13] 5 (a) The discharge pipe and fittings shall be made of a material acceptable for water distribution piping in accordance with s.Comm 84.30 (4) (e) 1. Discharge pipe shall discharge independently by gravity through an air gap into the drainage system or outside of the building with the end of the pipe not exceeding 2 feet (610 mm) and not less than 6 inches (152 mm) above the ground and pointing downwards. The result is a dangerous blockage of the TP valve and the risk of a BLEVE explosion. Some details including the design, the pigtail connection (presumably to a shutoff control) and research supporting this up-draining valve would be helpful. 5.

valve discharge relief tpr water tube drain tubes installation pressure piping valves boilers heaters inspection specifications temperature On 2019-11-11 by (mod) - is it ok for the TP valve to drip or leak? to adversely affect floats by means of a fixed air gap installed in I am in the process of selling a condo I own. Not have a threaded connection at the end of such piping. Call your service company as this is va safety concern. Great question, RJ. Even if a plumber charged a minimum of an hour's labor to unscrew the old valve and screw in the new one and its discharge tube that ought not amount to a substantial total (where I read "substantial" as hundreds of dollars) unless there was something rather unusual and costly going on in your home. That may be considerably more. Finally: I'd like to see a photo of that TPR valve and another of its data tag. This doesn't make any sense to me.

Our Comment Box is provided by Countable Web Productions countable.ca, Click to Show or Hide Citations & References, COMMONLY USED RESIDENTIAL BUILDING CODES, IRC 2009, WISCONSIN PLUMBING CODE, Chapter SPS 382, DESIGN, CONSTRUCTION, INSTALLATION, SUPERVISION, MAINTENANCE AND INSPECTION OF PLUMBING, CALIFORNIA 608.3 EXPANSION TANKS, AND COMBINATION TEMPERATURE AND PRESSURE-RELIEF VALVES, CALIFORNIA 761. Smith's Form No. You'd probably find these same instructions in the installation manual for the water heater.The COST for this repair should be no more than a simple plumbing service call and perhaps a few piping connections. fireplace As you can see from the example I give below, a typical residential boiler relief valve costs less than $100. 4. A water system provided with a check valve, backflow preventer, or other normally closed device that prevents dissipation of building pressure back into the water main, independent of the type of water heater used, shall be provided with an approved, listed, and adequately sized expansion tank or other approved device having a similar function to control thermal expansion. On 2020-07-15 by Doug H I like the pigtail approach because it offers a better chance for the owner to notice if there's a drip drip leak I think your photo of the water heater shows rust at its bottom; an old water heater and especially a rusty one that has suffered leaks over its life is at greater risk of bursting - a BLEVE explosion risk. The indirect or local waste piping serving a water heater 13 March 2015 Stan Stan the Inspector Man said: Can 3/4-inch flexible copper tubing sections (with FIP ends) be legally used in any part of a water heater's T&P discharge line? - R.N. The discharge from pressure relieving devices shall be piped to a safe location where: (1) The discharge of steam or hot water will not present a hazard to employees. heater valve water relief pressure tpr temperature plumbing tp valves schematic faqs heaters test were requirements installation prv american leaks This is an unsafe condition as the operation of the temperature or pressure relief valve may be interfered with by the insulation and also because the valve cannot be inspected for evidence of leaks or failure. if you are an inspector or plumber who wants to be credited as a technical contributor I can add your contact info there. At above right a reducing elbow was used to shrink the 3/4" horizontal T&P drain line (from the TPR valve mouth) to 1/2" for the vertical run to the floor. I'd like to see photos of the relief valves that you mention and of their discharge tubes. worse, draining the valve "up" as shown, means that a slow drip or leak won't be discovered by visual inspection until it has leaked so long as to fill that up-sloping TPR drain that, we hope, ultimately empties at a visible location. - How close Can a T and P discharge Pipe be to dry wall, How close Can a T and P discharge Pipe be to dry wall. But the risk of a BLEVE explosion and the results of such a blast are so serious as to be considered carefully. replacement of the valve should solve the problem. Be constructed of those materials listed in Section 605.4 or materials tested, rated and approved for such use in accordance with ASME A112.4.1. It's a similar hazard to the one that occurs even in a down-piped TPR valve when the valve is constantly dripping or leaking. Every relief valve which is designed to discharge water or steam shall be connected to a discharge pipe. U.S. But how dangerous is it to omit a discharge drain tube on a TPR valve? 5. [6] A.O. (Probably not permitted because it is above floor height?)

If the other end of that line is not already readily visible and in a location where it would be noticed, that too would be unsafe and improper.The FIX for this unsafe condition is usually trivial: the discharge tube must be routed only "downwards" from the TP valve outlet opening, and the end of the discharge tube must be in a readily accessible, visible, and safe location.

14. In my opinion it's unreliable as shown and could be unsafe and as I opine with comments in the articles I cite: RELIEF VALVE DISCHARGE TUBE - you are on this page. Watts Water Technologies, No. see our complete collection of plumbing codes and PDF downloads at. It would be useful to know what research was done to support accepting this up-draining TPR design, presumably using a temperature sensor that shuts down the boiler if hot water is found at the bottom of that tee at the TPR valve outlet. (2) The discharge of steam or water will not be detrimental to any electrical or other machinery or equipment. 6. Who, besides a willing contractor/plumber (which tenants don't hire in this state) can (red tag)? 7. 5 (c) The discharge pipe may not be trapped. The kitchen under sink outlet pipes are higher than the relief valve pipe.Your expert advice will be appreciated. 4778* All about Deliming Coil-Type/Tube-Type Commercial Water Heaters and Hydronic Boilers *Normally supplied when ordering Part No. or air conditioner may discharge into the riser of a floor drain [5] A.O. My new tankless water heater is in a place in my basement (finished) where there is no floor drain. In our original discussion the role and nature of that small diameter copper pigtail shown in the photo was not explained. The company points out that ANY backpressure on a conventional pressure relief valve of the type commonly used on residential water heaters (disc and spring type design) will see a reduction of its opening response if there is any backpressure on the valve, such as from debris, or even from standing water in a discharge tube piped upwards (though I suspect the pressure difference in most buildings would be small). Supersedes Form Nos. Be installed so as to flow by gravity. 3. Can you help me decide what the best action would be? I looked through the code book (IRC) and can't find any where that states it must be mechanically attached. Discharge line must always be installed to avoid water damage and scalding injury, when valve operates. OPINION: If the small diameter pigtail drain clogs the homeowner will never know it. They consider it legal under the California Plumbing Code, and thus not an AMMR, just an accepted method. valve to corrode and malfunction. (b) The user shall maintain all pressure relieving devices in good operating condition. thanks.

And depending on the kind of water heater and its fuel you will need to meet clearances from combustibles (that includes your wall). [11] "Four hurt as water heater explodes", Elaine Porterfield, Paul Shukovsky, Lewis Kamb, [12] Paul.This condition is unsafe.

Apologies for the delay. "T&P and ASME Safety Relief Valves", (2011), retreived 10 Dec 2012, original source: http://media.wattswater.com/PG-TP-ASME.pdf, Maybe the water heater needs to be replaced: if it's leaking or badly-corroded, for example. Doug. I have a practical answer and a legal answer.' SO if I I were a building inspector given final authority I'd object to that installation. Should I have the plumber attach it or let it ride? Should I be concerned? They don't seem to care to look as closely at things like temperature and pressure relief valves as your inspection website does--but I wish. Pigtail uprouted TPR for below grade basements (PUTPRfbGB)? Watch out: a discharge tube is required on TP valves to avoid scalding burn hazards. In a photo above on this page you can see a flexible 3/4" copper tube used in the routing of the discharge of a TP valve from the top of a water heater. 7/11/2013. Be constructed of those materials indicated in Section P2906.5 or materials tested, rated and approved for such use in accordance with ASME A112.4.1. Andover MA, USA, 978-688-1811, Website: www.watts.com, Amtrol, "Therm-X-Trol Thermal Expansion Absorbers", Amtrol Inc., 1400 Division Road, West Warwick, RI 02893, Tel: 401.884.6300 Website: www.amtrol.com, online product literature re4trieved 3/26/2014, original source: http://www.amtrol.com/thermxtrol.html. cross connection control device or assembly, or a furnace or air the problem could be the valve but mire likely a boiler over pressure condition or a water feeder problem.Diagnose the cause before replacing parts. What would make sense to me and what would be most economical would be to combine this repair with any other plumbing repairs that are needed at the home.The TIME to fix this problem is as soon as possible, without handling it as an extra-cost "immediate-emergency" plumbing repair. Details of our discussion with Mr. Nesbitt are given below. But it's easy to check. Noticing that a TPR discharge tube was missing on a heating boiler during a home inspection I [DF] pointed out this safety hazard to my client while the real estate agent nearby frowned at my "old maid" trouble-making personality.

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